Paul RakoTechnical Editor Paul Rako looks at analog technology in power supplies, interface, the signal path, and life in general.


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Tuesday, December 18, 2007

“Green” marketing hype turning off consumers

Dec 18 2007 2:12AM | Permalink | Email this | Comments (37) |
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The delightful Appliance Design magazine has a very interesting news item about a survey regarding consumer attitudes towards “green” products. It turns out we are getting sick and tired of all these companies trying to sell us stuff under the banner of “green” eco-friendly design. The intent to purchase green products has dropped about 20% from last year. I too am getting green fatigue. It seems like every press release and every story has to have some green angle. Now sure, buying a green washing machine may save a little energy on your bills, but the there will sure be a ton of energy wrapped up in the production of that new machine versus just keeping your old machine running. It turns out that consumers are pretty smart. In order to justify a 4000-dollar purchase for some “green” technology, they expect to see monthly savings equal to the additional mortgage payment they would need to make on that four grand. Since home equity is at 6% right now, 4 grand costs about 20 bucks a month. If that does not come off the gas or electric bill they realize that you are just trying to sell them some new crap that does not make economic sense. Bravo. It turns out that consumers are just as savvy as businesses about capital expenditures. The folks over at International Rectifier get green right. They have always been interested in power savings since they are in the power semiconductor business. When they showed me their presentation about smart motor control for washing machines they noted the cost of the electronics is offset by the savings of removing the transmission from the washing machine, since you vary the speed and reverse the direction of the motor electronically. International Rectifier seems to have taken the most systems-approach to advanced motor control. STM and Fairchild will sell you various modules you can hook together to run a PM motor, but IR integrates the microcontroller and the drivers and the power electronics onto one low-cost module. Pretty cool, expect the electric bike and scooter people to pick up on this and adapt the parts to vehicles. I am sure that would be OK with IR, their founder, Eric Lidow, was parading around Italy with an electric car back in the 1950s. Back then rectifiers were made from selenium. They sure have come a long way.

In a similar vein to green fatigue, one of the most promising green technologies — wind power, is getting a little pushback from the neighbors of people that want to put up 50-foot towers with noisy generators and windmills at the top. Anybody that wants a ham radio antenna at their house knows how much fun it is convincing the neighbors that it won’t look like crap and ruin their property values. Brian Dipert talked about the promise of wind energy here.

I am a great believer in conservation, but asking us to spend money to give the appearance of green, when we are just using more energy to make some shiny new crap to show off with, well, that is not being green, that is being vain. And remember, life is analog and any alternative technology will have benefits and drawbacks. The Alameda wind farm must not seem very green to the 4000 birds that it kills every year. The very thought of semiconductor companies bragging how green they are is a little laughable. I remember a friend that worked at a big wafer fab. She pointed out the hundreds of dead birds on the roof. She did not know if the birds were hitting guy wires for the stacks or if they were being poisoned by the all the toxic gasses used in semiconductor manufacturing. I do know that technology is the only way to solve technical problems. Honda introduced a hydrogen fuel cell car that really seems to work. As always, the problem is that it would cost about 100 times more than a regular car. All that cost represents energy and other social costs, so forcing us to all buy hydrogen cars will not help the planet, indeed, it will hurt it. Anyway, here’s to progress, but don’t expect to run your car off hydrogen or your house off solar any time soon, unless you are willing to pay far more than any economic rational would justify.


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Reader Comments


at 12/18/2007 8:22:36 AM, bluelair said:
Your math is correct, but you're giving it purely from the POV of the "selfish" buyer who considers only their economic well being. Others may view this differently, to take into account resource use in general, not just what hits them in the pocketbook. At this point in time, there is no direct "tax" on spewing carbon emissions into the atmosphere, it is a cost borne by the entire populace.

at 12/18/2007 8:45:57 AM, Economics 101 said:
Economics 101 dude.. something called "externalities." These are things that the buyer/seller market relationship does not price and they explain why libertarian types completely miss the point of the environment. For example, let's say we have a simple economic transaction: you hunt whales in the ocean, I eat whales. I pay you for your labor. Simple, right? The problem is the loss to the world of the whales. Market economics simply breaks down in these situations, just as you are describing in your article. This is why government regulation is 100% appropriate (and I don't say this as a bleeding heart hippie - I say this as a trained economist who recognizes this at a very fundamental level). In technical terms, regulation is needed is because of "market failure" with regards to the environment.

at 12/18/2007 8:54:46 AM, grayscale said:
Sure, there's something wrong about trashing a perfectly good washing machine, just to go out and buy a greener version. The point is not to do that. The point is to, when you old machine is dead, buy the greenest one you can afford. Just like the point of CF light bulbs. When an old incandescent one burns out, replace it with a better model. And with regards to the dead birds around the windmills, that's only one particular site that has that major of a problem. The others are placed with bird migration patterns taken into account and bird-kill is much less at those sites. Is it perfect? No, but the alternative is even more dead birds/animals/people. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing situation, just better than before.

at 12/18/2007 10:21:33 AM, Personal Safety said:
Protecting your own economic well being during a time of economic struggle is NOT selfish. Protect yourselves and your families with economic stability, then worry about the planet ( which has survived every economic upturn and downturn in history ).

at 12/18/2007 10:29:42 AM, Chris said:
When my old gas furnace died, the onsite tech quoted me a new "green" furnace for $3700. Several conversations later with competing vendors revealed that it would take me nearly ten years to recoup the additional cost of the efficiency, at which point my warranty would be expiring. So hey, I'm all about being energy-conscious, but please don't insult my intelligence by trying to push some uber-expensive "solution" on me that can't economically be justified. And hydrogen powered anything? Ha! Ask any chemical engineer if there is a safe, and efficient way to make it. (BTW: The answer is, "Not at this time.")

at 12/18/2007 10:57:12 AM, tbird said:
Mmmm.... Do you ever think people are tired of supporting a president who refuses to believe fossile fuel is obsolete?! Too many people are brain washed by this administration that we should do nothing so we can make the Presidents friends rich! I have spent past 12 months doing research... a solar hot water heater lasts 15 years pay off with utility savings 2-3yrs..after that free hot water 12+ years! Cost about $3500. Solar Pv Electric sm syst. takes 7-9 yrs payoff then free Electric 31 yrs!On Both systems ypur monthly payment is less then what you would pay the electric or gas company! THESE SYSTEMS DO WORK THEY DO SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT! IT WILL SAVE YOU MONEY!!! IT LESSENS OUR DEPENDENCE ON FORIEGN OIL! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!In the recent energy bill now trying to pass congress as of 12/14/07 almost every Republican in Senate was against removing tax breaks for oil comp. and giving it to Solar and wind incentives for consumers!!--The Pres.said he would veto bill! --Corrupt congress+ a Pres. and V.P. who are from oil industry = Zero for solar and wind!Europe and Asia countries are ahead of U.S.A. because they take alternative energy seriously both for security and environment reasons! How many birds died when Exxon Vladez crashed? What about all these other oil spills --recently San Fran, Ca, South Korea? FYI: Wind mills have been improved --less noise, about size of tv attenna, less chance to injure birds. I say to the author do your reseach before spewing crap that is false or misleading!!BLAH!!!

at 12/18/2007 11:00:49 AM, G.H Waite said:
Instead of splashing the dosh to get a new appliance, hire a local repair person to fix the old one until you can't get parts anymore. Then, buy the most energy efficient thing you can get your hands on and make sure to keep repairing that.

at 12/18/2007 11:07:07 AM, TO PERSONAL SAFETY said:
To Personal Safety: You sir are disgusting. You are writing on a PC and while perhaps living in a TINY localized moderate economic downturn, are clearly wealthy enough to be literate, use/own a PC, have a familiy, a car, have shelter over your head, and so forth.. whicih is a heck of a lot that can be said for the bulk of people on the planet. You really, really, really need to get some perspective sir and recognize just how lucky you are. Or is having the barest sense of environmental consciousness only for those who produce gold from their backsides? You sir are truly disgusting and selfish.

at 12/18/2007 11:09:27 AM, TO CHRIS: said:
So chris - you won't get an environmentally friendly solution unless it's good for your personal bottom line. While this is honest of you for admitting this, please do recognize just how selfish this is. And, since people like you won't change, the only solution is regulation. Put a tax of 1000% on the inefficient kind. It seems, alas, to be the only way to get the chriss and "personal safety"s of the world to stop staring at their navels.

at 12/18/2007 11:25:59 AM, Funny said:
Most of y'all are too funny. Why do you think places like Walmart, Target, and KMart do so well? Because the average person doesn't give a crap about anything except for cost. I like living in the U.S. If I wanted to live in a society where the taxes are too high and government regulation is too prevalent, *then* and only then would I move to Europe.

at 12/18/2007 11:30:11 AM, mozwhite said:
Seriously, most "green" is a scam. As the author states, even "green" products are typically produced in very un-"green" environments, likely using electricity from the fossil fuels an earlier poster called obsolete (even though they won't disappear in your lifetime). Sure, I could trade in my Escalade for a Prius, but for what? Posters keep complaining of "selfishness." Are you kidding? Trying to "green" the planet is the most selfish thing you could do because your only goal is to maintain the rule of human beings on Earth. The planet doesn't need your pity - it will be around no matter what we do to it. Take your hippie bs and go live in Oregon with your pals. And, even if man-made global warming exists (and that's a BIG if) and the ocean decides to creep up a bit (I'm about 20 miles from the coast in Florida), I'll build a f'ing sea wall because I'm a CAPITALIST so I can afford it!!

at 12/18/2007 11:31:44 AM, TO ALL said:
So begins the parade of idiots!

at 12/18/2007 12:19:01 PM, Brock Rockman said:
I was busy clubbing baby seals with puppies...what were we talking about again? Oh yeah. Green is neato!!!

at 12/18/2007 12:37:52 PM, Tarcher said:
Toxic gases from semi plant killing birds? Give me a break, ever heard of scrubbers? And if you really really really want to be green, don't bathe and don't bother washing your clothes in the first place.

at 12/18/2007 12:45:49 PM, Alexander said:
You hear a lot about how capitalism doesn't account for market externalities and therefore demands regulation, but you never hear those same "externalities economists" demanding that the government step in to reward those who create positive externalities. Like when a businessman succeeds and his efforts create not just profits for his company, but also contribute to the gentrification of his city and improvements to the standard of living of the cascading customers, clients, and vendors that are touched by him, he's created a massive increase in societal well-being for which he is uncompensated. Answer me thusly, if we are so concerned with externalities, why do we ignore positive externalities and only talk about negatives? I'll happily pay the government my carbon tax and other neg externalities when it pays me for my positives.

at 12/18/2007 1:18:41 PM, To Alexander: said:
I think you're smoking crack, son, and ranting about some mythical "externalities economists" (this is like saying "addition mathematician" - externalities are about as fundametnal and uncontroversial in economics as addition is to math). First, as a society, we are more concerned to not harm ourselves in a wider sense, so making sure bad things dont happen in some sense more important than insuring that particularly good things do. However, more than that, when you reward positive externalities, you actually end up eliminating them somewhat. For example, if a person volunteers for a year, if the government rewarded them with a year's salary, then obviously this is a wash; there is no or nearly no positive externality. Governments do indeed promote positive externalities all the time - for example, in Pennsylvania books are not taxed and particularly good neighbor companies and individuals are routinely given awards. I don't think you've thought your point through enough!

at 12/18/2007 2:05:04 PM, JR said:
The themes in this discussion all boil down to one "inconvenient truth": Environmentalism has become a religion. It's no use talking facts with the true believers. They know what they know and data that doesn't fit their model will not penetrate.

at 12/18/2007 2:11:09 PM, To T'bird said:
You have been brainwashed by the liberal left. It makes no sense to trash a good machine to buy an expensive green machine. Sure, when mine dies, I'll buy an energy efficient machine, but until then, forget it. As for solar heating water, it depends on where you live. PV payoff in 7-9 years? Not a chance. Wake up and do the math. It ain't there even in sunny climes let alone anywhere else. Did you ever think about the resources required and by-products of PV production? Not exactly a green prospect. When "green" makes cents (the other green) then it will happen. Otherwise you are just out there spending more money making yourself feel less guilty.

at 12/18/2007 2:15:13 PM, Green start said:
As I walk out of my house I am suffocated by the plume of smoke from my neighbor''s fire place! The first place to start green is stop using your fire place as it is the most polluting way to heat your homes. I have stopped using my fireplace 20 year ago eventhough it may save me a buck or two using it.

at 12/18/2007 2:16:57 PM, To Brock Rockman said:
I love you and want your babies.

at 12/18/2007 2:35:37 PM, Funny said:
JR- Unfortunately ... you speak the truth. :-) If the greenhouse effect and global warming is all due to human activity, then why is it a proven fact that Mars is getting warmer too? Ain't no SUV's, coal fired plants, or industrialization over there...

at 12/18/2007 2:35:49 PM, Thomas Greene III said:
What a horrible article. So ignorant. Do some research and write this again with some truth. Thanks

at 12/18/2007 3:01:17 PM, think about it said:
What people who are Green driven are realy saying is, I''m willing to change this much. Example - you by a hybrid car to help conserve gasoline, why don''t you give up driving if it''s realy that big of a problem? You say use windmill''s for electricity, why don''t you quit using electricity? The answer is obvious to live the way we want we''re not willing to go that far to "save the earth". Economics in a free market will allways give the correct answer. If you mess with it you will accept a result that is under performing or more expensive or both.

at 12/18/2007 5:02:06 PM, John Wilson said:
I was all excited to post a comment pointing out that cars costing 100 times more than they do now wouldn't "force us all" to buy them...it might force us all to walk, it might force us all to use (or develop) mass transit... But the idea that we'd have to accede and purchase the car regardless of the price is kind of an America-centric point of view...and may not stand up in the real world. Any more than the concept that 'green' must be economically advantageous to be feasible. "Green" should reflect the real cost of things...otherwise, we end up with 'sub-prime' greenness. But then I read the other comments here, and realized... Bummer - You're not going to understand a word I said.

at 12/19/2007 2:29:04 AM, Scunnerous said:
Huh? Is this a Greenpeace Gang-Bang? Who called them up?... or do they just lurk and skulk waiting to pounce on a few embarrassing (for them) facts? Of course all the established industries are rogues & scoundrels and all the new green guys are just lovable altruists... REALLY?? It''s really sad when I hear a taxi driver tell me all we need to do is just get moving on hydrogen and dump the security risks of petroleum. I guess he heard it on the TV - maybe even the British Brainwashing Corporation, where according to a recent report all you do is pull your car into a hydrogen station and pump the liquid (no kidding) hydrogen right into your tank just like umm, petrol - BWAA-HAA-HAA! And for the windmill fans, I suggest you take a look at figures on the dirtiest electricity consumers in Europe - yup, the ones with the most wind turbines... uhh, that''d be Denmark. Sorry to have to tell you this but the petroleum is there and we ARE going to use it, because there''s nothing else which comes close and won''t be for a long time. OH BTW for direct drive transmissionless washers, Fisher & Paykel has been doing it for years. I do hope IR reads their patent portfolio before proceeding to the point that got teethmarks on LG''s bum.

at 12/19/2007 10:29:36 AM, kilgoretrout said:
It seems we all agree that there is problem, except for the poster who referred to Mars'' increasing temperature. If we can''t agree what the problem is, there''s little hope of solving it. I would say that the problem is global warming, caused by generation of greenhouse gasses. The U.S., per capita, consumes 4 to 7 times the amount of resources as the average inhabitant, and produces an equivalent portion of these gasses. Considering basic fairness: are we entitled to do this? What have you done that allows you to deplete resources more than other fellow inhabitants? We are looking at, if not a catastrophe, then at least a major shift in our relationship with the earth, the only one we have. Doesn''t reason suggest that we err on the side of caution? The situation calls for a change in human behavior. As major users and stakeholders in the planet, don''t we have to change our behavior more than others do? Are we going to bring about the necessary changes by squabbling and name-calling? Unless we act, and act together, our grandchildren will curse us.

at 12/19/2007 12:14:40 PM, nonGreenengineer said:
I get it. I am tired of being pushed green this, green that, and green the other just for being greens sake. I am a consumer who does not believe that being green is all that. I happen to like red and blue also. I do believe that if newer technologies result in saving me $$, I am willing to look at them. I have 4 children and our family travels alot. We need a big vehicle, so we use a full size van. The one we have now gets 13 MPG hwy (the old one got 10). I could use a Mini-Van, but have you ridden in one for 18 hrs. NOT ME. I am obviously willing to spend some money to be comfortable. I get the feeling from some that I should feel guilty abouth that. I have a 3700 SF house that has under floor heat, 2 stage heat pumps, tankless water heaters. None of it was put in to save the world. I have them because they are better and provide me with better comfort, control, and use of my home. If I wanted to save the world, I would by a cave somewhere and use a wood stove like they did back before we had this apparent Global warming trend.

at 12/19/2007 3:53:18 PM, David1234 said:
"I do know that technology is the only way to solve technical problems." You have GOT to be kidding me! This is exactly what is wrong with the world today, and it is called "techno-triumphalism". Additional complexity does not always solve complex problems - often it just reduces them to complete chaos.

at 12/20/2007 9:59:08 AM, Bob A. in Canada said:
Consumers are very smart indeed. They will gladly replace old appliances with new energy efficient ones, but the question is when. If their old appliances are nowhere near their end-of-life yet, then they must see energy bill savings to justify the immediate replacement cost. But if they are near end-of-life, then consumers must buy something and it will only make sense to buy the latest and greatest green product. Consider something else, too. How will consumers know how much they are saving on their energy bills with green products. It's nearly impossible without the right equipment to monitor their electricity consumption in real time in the home. A hot idea would be to provide consumers with a real-time in-home energy display that communicates directly with your electronic smart meter on the house. Too bad governments and utility companies are not terribly motivated to provide this sort of technology to consumers... yet.

at 12/20/2007 11:16:09 AM, Mike said:
Instead of focusing on the energy & climate cost of the "necessary" items like transportation, heating/cooling your house and so on, take a look at these same costs for all the luxury items in our world. How many megawatts does it take each day to recharge all the iPods and cellphones owned by this country's teenagers? What about the natural resources and energy required to make those products? Many of those products will be replaced by next years models for no reason except to have the latest - what about all the waste created when these items are discarded? What is the cost in resources, energy and waste to produce and broadcast thousands of TV shows and commercials all so we can flip through a hundred channels to find nothing worth watching. Whether you look at it as "fixing" global warming, reducing dependence on foreign oil or reducing waste and pollution these are all complex problems, and there will be no single fix. It will take a number of small steps by the majority of the population to have an impact.

at 12/23/2007 8:06:11 PM, To kilgoretrout said:
It seems that the person who doesn''t "get it" is YOU. That planets and moons in the solar system are experiencing warming is a fact, and there is no way humans are responsible for this. Clearly, the sun is the only common factor. Furthermore, there have been historic periods of global warming and cooling where humans couldn''t have affected the outcome. Finally, not all scientists accept that humans are making any significant impact to the global warming. There is nothing wrong with wanting to preserve the environment, but it sounds like you swallowed Al Gore''s liberal junk science hook, line, and sinker.

at 1/3/2008 3:58:01 PM, The Dude said:
Green is the new green.

at 2/27/2008 5:49:05 PM, Jay Mackey said:
I hate "Green". A sure-fire way to turn me off is to tout your ''greeness''. And it''s more than ''fatigue''. It''s the factless religious fervor as evidenced by most of the posters named ''To'' on this page. I''ve investigated the latest solar/wind/hydrogen products for the home, and they fall far short. The paybacks are exceeding two decades for some of the stuff out there. Even when a government will pay up to half the cost to subsidize, it often still makes no sense. BTW, if libertarianism doesn''t work, and government regulation is the only answer, then what explains Yellowstone National Park? The place was a ''pristine'' wildlife paradise before it was ''nationalized'', after which well-meaning bureaucrats ran it into the ground. It turns out that it wasn''t so ''pristine'' after all. It turns out American Indians had been ''managing'' it just fine on their own. This included controlled burns, hunting, and other wildlife control measures to produce a virtual paradise. They didn''t kill off all the game animals to feed themselves. They didn''t kill off all the predators because they might hurt the deer and elk. They didn''t need government regulations and bureaucrats to tell them that that would be bad for their future.

at 3/11/2008 1:04:30 PM, Jay Mackey said:
More 'green' idiocy... well, marketing hype, anyway... Dyson has a new commercial about his work on developing a 'new' kind of motor: one without carbon brushes. This will reduce carbon dust production, he says. A bit later, he summarizes his new, soon to be developed, brushless motor as having no 'carbon emissions'! OMG! Obviously he is asking us to disregard the carbon emissions produced in the manufacture of the device itself, and the power to run it, and of course the fact that carbon dust IS NOT CO2, and if found in the upper atmosphere, is most likely to assist in the reduction of global temperatures. That, and there's nothing 'new' and 'revolutionary' about brushless motors. Unless he meant 'revolutionary' as a pun.

at 3/11/2008 2:27:21 PM, blindsangamon said:
As we sit and tremble at the thought of all that horrible CO2 produced by burning fossil fuels, pause and ask what was fossilized to make this cola and oil? Biomass - which took the CO2 out of the atmosphere. Obviously, during the time when this biomass was alive, the earth was just fine, and healthy enough to produce all that plant life. T. Rex and his ilk did just fine during this time. Did anyone ever wonder if the global cooling resulting from all this carbon sequestration is what killed off the dinosaurs - resulting in one of the biggest mass extinctions in history? Bring on global warming - I''m all for it.

at 5/19/2008 5:43:23 PM, jpmiller said:
There are two types of greens - those who want clean air and clean water to live in and to reduce the cost of living and those who think nature is intrinsically good and should be protected for its own sake not for the benefit of man. This latter ultimately seek to destroy man. Read their rhetoric. In a truely free market with private ownership all externalities will be accomodated. The cost of landfil will make it uneconomic to throw away certain kinds of trash. The cost of increasingly scarce whales caused a switch from whale oil for lighting lamps to fossil fuel. The cost of fossil fuel will eventually force a switch to other energy forms. The economy of paying for appliances will cause people to choose more energy efficient models at the right capital cost. It is the intrinsicist who can not allow the market to work because working is not his goal, rather elimination of man is.

at 5/19/2008 5:52:50 PM, jpmiller said:
Protecting your own economic well being during a time of economic struggle is profoundly selfish. It is in your rational self interest as Ayn Rand put it. And that is good not evil.

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